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18 December 2014 06:37 pm
Zoro Posts: 300 Joined: 31 July 2011	Phantom9, What should a piece of equipment that does not meet the CURRENT BS/EN 60947-1: 2007 + A1:2011 standard for that equipment be coded, when there is a risk of combustion? Forget the BS7671 propaganda.
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18 December 2014 07:10 pm
SandyBoiler Posts: 263 Joined: 02 October 2008	Originally posted by: Zoro Phantom9, What should a piece of equipment that does not meet the CURRENT BS/EN 60947-1: 2007 + A1:2011 standard for that equipment be coded, when there is a risk of combustion? Forget the BS7671 propaganda. Just because a piece of equipment was manufactured before the latest amendment to its relevant product standard, I don't think we are to assume that it is now no longer fit for purpose, are we?...Assuming when you say "when there is a risk of combustion" you mean, the equipment is made of a combustible material, as a opposed to some more imminent risk, I would think no code at all for the above. I'd like to hope that where a certain range of equipment is found to not meet certain safety standards, the option would be to recall that equipment. As far as the reg, I do take the point about waiting to see what the actual wording will be, as this could certainly have a bearing on how we are to code these things... ------------------------- Andy B
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18 December 2014 07:28 pm
jcm256 Posts: 2327 Joined: 01 April 2006	But they the fire brigade are still not happy about the standard of work in tall and timber framed residential buildings? (No need to read all in web site below but here is a couple of snippets) . fittings such as sockets and switches, suitable for traditional build methods are still being used in locations where the fire boundary is penetrated. They should be of the fire resisting type.. cable and pipe runs, formerly routed in a well managed fashion to reduce the number of penetrations through block-work, are now replaced by a multitude of smaller penetrations as each service runs its own path 'as-the-crow flies' since holes are easily made in timber. The uncontrolled routing of services means that capable cavity barrier fire stopping devices are replaced by 'goo-gun' sealant techniques which are generally poor by any standard. Once the building is complete all these issues are hidden from view and they are being passed as compliant by the building or approved inspector. 8.6 Regulation 16B of the Building Regulations states that fire safety information should be passed to the responsible person upon completion of a building to help facilitate the risk assessment process and to help ensure ongoing fire safety. Essentially this equates to a manual on the use of the fire safety measures within the building, it would appear however that the requirements of Regulation 16B are not being routinely complied with. http://www.london.gov.uk/sites...mbined%20Evidence.pdf This is how to conform; building control part P chaps will know all about it: http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File1948.pdf
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18 December 2014 08:05 pm
phantom9 Posts: 1757 Joined: 16 December 2002	Originally posted by: Zoro Phantom9, What should a piece of equipment that does not meet the CURRENT BS/EN 60947-1: 2007 + A1:2011 standard for that equipment be coded, when there is a risk of combustion? Forget the BS7671 propaganda. Well, you are claiming something that I am not aware of. Are you saying that some fuse boards that should comply with that standard are failing to meet that standard? Because if you are then it is nothing to do with BS7671. Its a manufacturing breach not a reg breach. You cannot, as an electrician, be expected to know that an item you have purchased and installed that is branded as compliant with a MANUFACTURING standard, and purchased in good faith, does not meet the standard. What are going to do, take all your electrical accessories that you've purchased to a BS testing plant every time you buy them before you turn up to the job? You don't code it for goodness sake and you can't code it. Its not possible. How CAN you know beforehand. Wake up and smell the coffee, you are falling in to the "lets invent some imaginative electrical problems trap". If the manufacturer is guilty of wrong doing its out of our hands. Zoro, your what-ifs, buts and maybes are unfounded. If you were to think it through, like I try to do, you would answer your own question half the time. As an aside, I have never met such an imaginative bunch in my life as electricians. They dream up all sorts of bloody scenarios convinced that they are right and that they comply (or not as the case may be) with regs. Never experienced so much enthusiasm to prove oneself as being more correct or better than the other electrician. I am beginning (after ten years) to see why this industry is so messed up. Its not for lack of 'the Regs' it's because of all the fanciful, made up, misconstrued and misguided nonsense that abounds. We've got DaveZawadis C1s, your non-compliance with a BS manufacturing code, people trying to suggest that passing cables through a box might not comply with a Reg, people arguing about metal fuse boards when metal is not even in the reg, it goes on and on. Truly, I say, truly unbelievable. I have decided that there are as many permutations and claims of what does or does not comply with a reg as there are electricians. Unbelievable!!!
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