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Site Electrical & Compliance Engineer

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Head of HV Services
- Kings Langley, Exeter, Glasgow, Gateshead, Grimsby, Guildford, Larne, Cardiff and Truro
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Senior Electrical/Electronics Engineer
- Berkshire, Reading, England
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09 November 2014 02:34 pm
John Peckham Posts: 9097 Joined: 23 April 2005	OMS Well if the the consumer unit is combustible then it will be a departure from BS7671 after 2016 so has to be a C3. Yes the hard bit will be determining if the consumer unit is combustible without destructive testing. No doubt someone or some organisation will produce a a list of non-complaint boards with pictures to aid the inspector in his or her duty. Of course if the final published AMD 3 says metal which is what I am hearing then the decision will be a lot easier? ------------------------- John Peckham http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
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09 November 2014 02:40 pm
OMS Posts: 22864 Joined: 23 March 2004	Originally posted by: John Peckham OMS Well if the the consumer unit is combustible then it will be a departure from BS7671 after 2016 so has to be a C3. Yes the hard bit will be determining if the consumer unit is combustible without destructive testing. No doubt someone or some organisation will produce a a list of non-complaint boards with pictures to aid the inspector in his or her duty. You think so John ? Sounds like some over representation by manufacturers of consumer units siting on a committee somewhere and drumming up a little more business to add to the "17 edition compliant DB" portfolio to me. Still as the saying goes "if you aren't part of the solution, then there's always brass to be made prolonging the problem" Regards OMS ------------------------- Let the wind blow you, across a big floor.
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09 November 2014 02:47 pm
John Peckham Posts: 9097 Joined: 23 April 2005	OMS This is what BEAMA are saying on their web site. BEAMA ------------------------- John Peckham http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
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09 November 2014 03:12 pm
OMS Posts: 22864 Joined: 23 March 2004	Originally posted by: John Peckham OMS This is what BEAMA are saying on their web site. BEAMA Yes, I've read it John It simply replays what IET has said - what is silent is the reasons that JPEL introduced this requirement and the fact that LFB and BEAMA along with ESC have had a whole series of interchanges regading the work of Mr Carey at LFB Regards OMS ------------------------- Let the wind blow you, across a big floor.
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09 November 2014 03:22 pm
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	Napit Pro, I pretty much agree with most of what you said, however - "Cage clamp terminals ARE unsuitable for consumer units (especially for terminating meter tails) but their use precedes the increase in mains distribution fire statistics by many years. " It`s possible that a lot of them have been lurking about waiting to happen for quite a while too, some loose connections not doubt take a long while to actually get hot because of load magnitude, duration of such and degree of slackness. Some might take years to actually cause a fire proper. Reminds me a bit of the number of the old 6KW showers years ago that were spurred off a ring from the bedroom socket. You only found out when you opened the socket up and they were often reasonably unscathed. Now if we did that it would burn next week ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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09 November 2014 05:31 pm
napitprofessional Posts: 452 Joined: 08 March 2008	Originally posted by: ebee Napit Pro, I pretty much agree with most of what you said, however - "Cage clamp terminals ARE unsuitable for consumer units (especially for terminating meter tails) but their use precedes the increase in mains distribution fire statistics by many years. " It`s possible that a lot of them have been lurking about waiting to happen for quite a while too, some loose connections not doubt take a long while to actually get hot because of load magnitude, duration of such and degree of slackness. Some might take years to actually cause a fire proper. Reminds me a bit of the number of the old 6KW showers years ago that were spurred off a ring from the bedroom socket. You only found out when you opened the socket up and they were often reasonably unscathed. Now if we did that it would burn next week How can the scams rule out the incompetence of some of their own members when both they AND DCLG have already admitted to a Parliamentary Select Committee that the person actually carrying out the work does not need to be competent or qualified in any way? They have also stated that they do not know what qualifications their members possess - which will come as something of a shock to all of those members who have their qualifications checked at each annual assessment ( well, those that actually get assessed may be shocked ) ------------------------- B. Eng (Hons) MIET
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09 November 2014 06:07 pm
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	I`m certainly not ruling out incompetence, as I said I agree pretty much with what you said. I was just pointing out that perhaps those awful cages were making more of an impact than you were considering i.e. the old terminals suffered less from incompetents than the cages do. They were a bit more tolerant of bad workmanship ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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09 November 2014 08:40 pm
napitprofessional Posts: 452 Joined: 08 March 2008	Originally posted by: ebee I`m certainly not ruling out incompetence, as I said I agree pretty much with what you said. I was just pointing out that perhaps those awful cages were making more of an impact than you were considering i.e. the old terminals suffered less from incompetents than the cages do. They were a bit more tolerant of bad workmanship How much tolerance is needed to allow for ex-supermarket shelf stackers and coach drivers fitting 3 or 4 consumer units per day with NO testing and fictional EIC's? ------------------------- B. Eng (Hons) MIET
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09 November 2014 09:38 pm
FizzleBang Posts: 1309 Joined: 05 January 2007	Originally posted by: napitprofessional How much tolerance is needed to allow for ex-supermarket shelf stackers and coach drivers fitting 3 or 4 consumer units per day with NO testing and fictional EIC's? Is that really happening? A lot of the CU's fitted without testing and certification round these parts were done by experienced, time served and fully qualified electricians. Thing is, they came from large companies operating in the leisure and retail sector. All that kind of stuff had been done by their supervisors without their involvement. They wouldn't know where to start. They carried that habit over to their new life as House Bashers. I recently heard an industrial spark I was inducting to my work place who was talking to a colleague about the tests he'd been doing on some RCD protected circuits. Good job it wasn't my place to measure his competence. ------------------------- To me, to you
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09 November 2014 02:49 pm
weirdbeard Posts: 3116 Joined: 26 September 2011	Originally posted by: John Peckham Of course if the final published AMD 3 says metal which is what I am hearing then the decision will be a lot easier? Code 3? : ------------------------- :beer)
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