IET Forums - Have I gone mad or did i just hear that right ? No plastic fuseboards.

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24 October 2014 07:39 AM
davezawadi Posts: 4259 Joined: 26 June 2002	I'm afraid that I cannot accept that something in direct contravention of the regulations can ever not be a C1. You are claiming there is no instant risk, in that they may only catch fire if there is some other problem, like loose screws. Then why change the regulation at all? If the problem is screws you make regulations to correct the screws! In fact there already are such, so no change is needed. If the LFB wants to check the screws then they could even train a few firemen in London to do this and the problem is cured. A further example would be electrical items in a petrol station forecourt. If I inspect these and find that the Ex rated seals are not in place or that incorrect non Ex items are used what code is that? It is not immediately dangerous as we need a whole host of other circumstances to cause a fire or explosion. I also code this as a C1, as the wrong equipment and installation method has been used and it presents a very high potential risk if the other circumstances happen, which they do occasionally somewhere in the country. I see that the seminar is going to cover several other "new" areas as well, one called RCD risk assessments. The other one is overhead cable fixings in escape routes. The other changes are pretty minor and just pad out the seminar, unless the wiring regulations are suddenly going to contain regulations on lighting levels and sources, or even energy efficiency, perhaps based on vacuum cleaners (does anyone want to support that one as being necessary, worthwhile and cost effective?). As I stated before I see a flimsy evidence base, not supported by my experience, a suggestion that self extinguishing plastics can burn when the source of ignition has gone, and a claim that simply making the enclosure of metal (with all the associated plastic stuff inside, holes to access the MCBs and for cables) without a requirement for fireproof seals everywhere to prevent fire from exiting the enclosure (very similar to Ex) is going to make an immense difference, when the occurrence of this kind of fire is tiny anyway. Note that neither insurers or the HSE has taken any effort to ask for this change as far as I can establish. The position of the inspector is also under threat as he is accepting liability for not following a regulation, should he use other than C1, that is clearly stated to be as a result of many fires and potentially loss of life. Your PI insurer would take a very dim view of that, and it would only take a single case to raise the premium to new heights for everyone. The poor guy involved would probably become uninsurable. (One for BOD there!). This is not a case of reasonable doubt, the case is already made that these plastic items are not fit for purpose, all at the stroke of a pen. There is also a problem with recent installations and warranties for them. If an item used suddenly becomes to be banned, the client probably has redress against you as you, as you failed in your professional judgement in selecting the equipment for the installation. Clearly you should have known that these plastic items were not fit for purpose, and the regulation change simply backed this up to help the others. Similarly the manufacturers are also open to claims that the product was unfit for sale, which they should have known from tests, unless of course we blame the installer for not tightening the terminals to the required torque (which could not be checked after unknown heating in a fire, you loose anyway), something which has been creeping up for a few years now and the reason was not clear before. I feel that this is an over reaction to a non-problem. I have been to some effort to explain why I think this, and why such a change is a severe problem with all existing installations with a plastic CU. Unless the inspection section is also changed to allow existing installations to be non compliant, and for the inspector to not be responsible for the outcome should he code this as satisfactory, we have a problem. If you wish to disagree, please keep to the forum rules, and make reasoned arguments not ad hominem remarks which bring you into disrepute. ------------------------- David BSc CEng MIET
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24 October 2014 07:44 AM
davezawadi Posts: 4259 Joined: 26 June 2002	Ah donglebat, you can't. You see there are no compliant CUs available, thats why they want to put this off for six months! Also expect a significant price hike, this kind of thing doesn't come cheap. ------------------------- David BSc CEng MIET
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24 October 2014 09:15 AM
Jaymack Posts: 5571 Joined: 07 April 2004	Originally posted by: davezawadi I'm afraid that I cannot accept that something in direct contravention of the regulations can ever not be a C1. C1 for a plastic C.U. proved to be no danger?. Your efforts don't convince me! Regards
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24 October 2014 09:25 AM
mapj1 Posts: 12039 Joined: 22 July 2004	As an example, is not a non green/yellow sleeved CPC also a clear contravention of regs, but please tell me its not an imminent danger to life, so not C1. (Well not in my world of stuff running with the covers off, and all the whirly bits exposed. I have enough trouble with things that are not earthed at all and an odd case of mains on 4mm bannana plugs, and we all know it should be the sockets that are livened up on the variacs..) not quite the same model, but shows the concept. ------------------------- regards Mike
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