IET Forums - Have I gone mad or did i just hear that right ? No plastic fuseboards.

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14 October 2014 08:38 AM
Bhilly Posts: 51 Joined: 17 June 2013	Good point. At the moment the intention is that the new reg won't come into force until 1st Jan 2016 to give the manufacturers time to sort their product range out.
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17 October 2014 08:45 PM
weirdbeard Posts: 3116 Joined: 26 September 2011	Originally posted by: Bhilly Good point. At the moment the intention is that the new reg won't come into force until 1st Jan 2016 to give the manufacturers time to sort their product range out. Hi Bhilly, if the new reg is due to be published in ammedment 3 in the coming new year Jan 2015 and that particular reg only isn't going to be effective until a year later 2016..... even for BS7671 changes, it sounds a bit far fetched! Edit to add: I retract the above! Just saw this quote from hager: "The third amendment to BS 7671:2008 Requirements for Electrical Installations will be issued in January 2015 and is intended to come into effect on 1st July 2015. Installations designed after 30th June 2015 are to comply with BS 7671:2008 incorporating Amendment 3, 2015. However, Regulation 421.1.201 does not come into effect until the 1st January 2016. This does not preclude compliance with this regulation prior to this date." What a mess this one is going to be! ------------------------- :beer) Edited: 19 October 2014 at 08:54 AM by weirdbeard
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18 October 2014 08:42 AM
davezawadi Posts: 4259 Joined: 26 June 2002	There is something completely wrong with these statistics. If all these " loose?" connections were causing fires then there would be many boards found where loose connections had not caused a fire, and we would all have seen them quite regularly, with a few charred bits around the odd breaker. In my experience these are quite rare, so I question the numbers. Data collection by fire brigades is notoriously unreliable, because they do not have the level of technical knowledge that is often necessary, hence the forensic fire investigation companies who work for the insurers. If this was a "real" problem those would be the ones shouting about it, mainly the insurers, but it is not. Therefore I suspect that these figures come down to interpretation of results, some of which would not stand up to scrutiny. I am equally suspicious as the ESC etc are involved, as they seem to be prepared to do anything to keep the schemes going. How many firemen, after a nasty fire around the intake meter and cu, could decide which bit went up first, or whether it was really the alarm psu that caused the fire? I'd bet its not very many.... Many of these reported fires are probably minor in nature, were actually extinguished before the firemen arrived, and just made a mess. Changing the plastic to metal will not change the insides of the MCBs which are largely made of plastic, so we will still have a mess! I certainly could not code a new plastic CU as unsatisfactory, it has been tested and presumably passes all the standards including gross overloads, and didn't catch fire then so why should it later? Can you even imagine the customer reaction to such a situation. Again we are in the position where a stroke of a pen changes the safety of the installation, which it cannot. The London fire brigade should be asked to pass all the documentary evidence and photos to the IET before such a change were even considered, because the outcome is very serious for the country and potentially costs £10 billion pounds to correct! (25,000,000 installations x £400). It is a gross overreaction to a minor problem in my view. ------------------------- David BSc CEng MIET
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20 October 2014 10:25 AM
impvan Posts: 922 Joined: 07 September 2005	Originally posted by: davezawadi Data collection by fire brigades is notoriously unreliable.. Downright dodgy I'd say. If the LFB's figures don't seem quite right, and they're one of the better outfits, what are the figures from the rural brigades like? I myself have witnessed a FB callout to "smell of smoke" being put down as electrical, when it was found to be a fag-end smouldering in dry compost in a window box. It took a good six months to get the records changed. I was also called round to a pensioner's bungalow, after the FB switched off her fuseboard. The logged "consumer unit fault" was just a smelly bakelite lampholder which she'd recently put a 150W bulb into. Another pensioner in the same complex wanted me to put extra sockets in her lounge, after the FB - on one of their helpful inspections - insisted that the 4-way 1m extension running her telly and digibox was a fire risk. He missed the polystyrene ceiling tiles... I too strongly believe that the Fire Brigade reports should be independently audited before any decisions are made based upon them. We don't need a repeat of the 'dodgy dosier' which initially promoted Part P. Certainly round here, the LABC have a tame electrician on retainer, for doing the Part P (non-reg) inspections. Perhaps these electricians could be used to give an initial opinion? Most cases should be diagnosable without being a forensic investigator! I think that route would be better than, say, giving electrical knowledge to a FB member.
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20 October 2014 05:51 PM
jcm256 Posts: 2327 Joined: 01 April 2006	These guys say example of non combustible consumer unit is steel. By the way looks like will have to purchase a new yellow BS7671 book in January. Though this amendment was, free. http://www.3rdamendment.co.uk/ RCD for TT anyone. 200 tick boxes, zombies or what.
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21 October 2014 06:13 PM
weirdbeard Posts: 3116 Joined: 26 September 2011	Originally posted by: davezawadi There is something completely wrong Agreed. The London fire brigade should be asked to pass all the documentary evidence and photos to the IET before such a change were even considered, IETLFB http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AaKOx5q1j4 because the outcome is very serious for the country. Agreed. ------------------------- :beer)
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19 October 2014 01:28 PM
weirdbeard Posts: 3116 Joined: 26 September 2011	Originally posted by: weirdbeard Originally posted by: Bhilly Good point. At the moment the intention is that the new reg won't come into force until 1st Jan 2016 to give the manufacturers time to sort their product range out. Hi Bhilly, if the new reg is due to be published in ammedment 3 in the coming new year Jan 2015 and that particular reg only isn't going to be effective until a year later 2016..... even for BS7671 changes, it sounds a bit far fetched! Edit to add: I retract the above! Just saw this quote from hager: "The third amendment to BS 7671:2008 Requirements for Electrical Installations will be issued in January 2015 and is intended to come into effect on 1st July 2015. Installations designed after 30th June 2015 are to comply with BS 7671:2008 incorporating Amendment 3, 2015. However, Regulation 421.1.201 does not come into effect until the 1st January 2016. This does not preclude compliance with this regulation prior to this date." What a mess this one is going to be! I retract my earlier retraction....having thought about........It's marketing bull and the idea that domestic metal DBs will take over deserves a place in GeoffB's volt-stick repositary: Thankfully, the electrical inspector can easily refer to electrical safety firsts website for important information about electrical products that are not fit to be in service: http://www.electricalsafetyfir...g.uk/product-recalls/ ------------------------- :beer)
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