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Topic Title: EMMA SHAW CASE
Topic Summary: Result of the Court case
Created On: 31 March 2014 04:35 pm
Status: Read Only
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - John Peckham - 31 March 2014 04:35 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - John Peckham - 31 March 2014 05:19 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 31 March 2014 05:23 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 31 March 2014 05:26 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - John Peckham - 31 March 2014 05:30 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - impvan - 31 March 2014 05:31 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - rocknroll - 31 March 2014 05:46 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - perspicacious - 31 March 2014 06:02 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - jcm256 - 31 March 2014 06:03 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - aligarjon - 31 March 2014 08:21 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - jcm256 - 31 March 2014 08:53 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - aligarjon - 31 March 2014 10:26 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - sparkingchip - 31 March 2014 11:54 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - antric2 - 01 April 2014 12:40 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Zoro - 01 April 2014 09:23 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - davezawadi - 01 April 2014 10:57 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 01 April 2014 11:17 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - mapj1 - 01 April 2014 12:41 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - antric2 - 01 April 2014 12:46 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - aligarjon - 01 April 2014 08:07 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 01 April 2014 09:15 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - weirdbeard - 01 April 2014 03:27 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 01 April 2014 11:15 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 01 April 2014 11:36 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 01 April 2014 12:23 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - phantom9 - 01 April 2014 01:14 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 01 April 2014 01:43 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 01 April 2014 01:22 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - davezawadi - 01 April 2014 02:14 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - ennel - 01 April 2014 07:07 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Zoro - 02 April 2014 10:20 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - weirdbeard - 01 April 2014 03:21 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 01 April 2014 03:28 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 01 April 2014 03:15 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 01 April 2014 03:27 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - John Peckham - 01 April 2014 03:36 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - phantom9 - 02 April 2014 09:05 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - phantom9 - 02 April 2014 09:10 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 02 April 2014 10:16 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - sparkingchip - 02 April 2014 12:00 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - phantom9 - 02 April 2014 06:57 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 02 April 2014 09:15 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - phantom9 - 02 April 2014 09:21 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 02 April 2014 09:38 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - mapj1 - 02 April 2014 10:26 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 02 April 2014 12:06 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 02 April 2014 12:14 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - mapj1 - 02 April 2014 01:20 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 02 April 2014 01:50 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 02 April 2014 03:04 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 02 April 2014 04:13 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - GeoffBlackwell - 02 April 2014 04:22 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - rocknroll - 02 April 2014 04:26 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 02 April 2014 05:50 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - phantom9 - 02 April 2014 06:36 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Zuiko - 02 April 2014 07:02 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - geoffsd - 02 April 2014 07:33 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 02 April 2014 08:24 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - phantom9 - 02 April 2014 11:38 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - mawry - 03 April 2014 02:39 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - briandoherty - 06 April 2014 06:09 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Zs - 07 April 2014 07:27 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - mawry - 08 April 2014 11:13 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - mikejumper - 08 April 2014 07:46 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - napitprofessional - 09 April 2014 12:06 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Zoro - 09 April 2014 10:50 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - napitprofessional - 09 April 2014 02:01 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 02 April 2014 08:23 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Parsley - 02 April 2014 10:30 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - electricman - 02 April 2014 11:06 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - ericmark - 03 April 2014 02:37 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Zoro - 04 April 2014 09:20 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - John Peckham - 06 April 2014 03:53 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - electricman - 08 April 2014 11:19 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - AJJewsbury - 08 April 2014 11:23 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - mikejumper - 09 April 2014 04:42 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 09 April 2014 05:14 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - psychicwarrior - 10 April 2014 08:56 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - napitprofessional - 11 April 2014 05:54 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - davezawadi - 12 April 2014 11:46 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - sparkingchip - 12 April 2014 12:33 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - John Peckham - 12 April 2014 01:21 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - weirdbeard - 12 April 2014 06:28 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - sparkingchip - 12 April 2014 06:51 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - weirdbeard - 12 April 2014 08:11 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - sparkingchip - 12 April 2014 10:57 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - phantom9 - 12 April 2014 04:02 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Grobbyman - 12 April 2014 05:44 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Zoro - 12 April 2014 06:11 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Fm - 12 April 2014 11:26 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - sparkingchip - 12 April 2014 11:37 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - Fm - 12 April 2014 11:40 pm  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - sparkingchip - 13 April 2014 12:04 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - phantom9 - 13 April 2014 09:25 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - OMS - 14 April 2014 10:13 am  
 EMMA SHAW CASE   - potential - 14 April 2014 10:32 am  
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 02 April 2014 10:26 am
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mapj1

Posts: 12039
Joined: 22 July 2004

The problem with not bonding is that it is just
'indeterminate connection' and you run the risk of having a faulty water heater that makes all the pipes in the house a bit live, and a steady few hundred mA to ground through the water pipes, and no body notices, and nothing trips, until the fault voltage is exported to a place with a real terra-firma earth in some other way, such as the kids go to use the outside tap in bare feet.
I take the point about the relative accident rates, it is the case, as I noted above, she was jolly unlucky, and that combination of events was jolly unlikely, and could just as well still have arisen even if the paper trail had been OK.
I would not use one accident as an argument for not earthing metal service pipes however.
Actually for the record it's more like 10 people a day declared dead in RTAs in the UK, and between 5 to 10 times that hospitalised for at least overnight, and mostly its not even mentioned on the local news. Even this pales beside deaths from other causes including misdiagnosed or late diagnosis of avoidable medical conditions - I will contentiously assert that we would save many more lives scrapping part P, and paying the equivalent money that now goes to NICIEC et al, into
preventive clinical screening services of one sort or another.
If we take treasury life values, we might like part P to save about 100 people a year to be as cost effective as say moer bowel cancer screening - well as nothing like that many are electrocuted so it can't possibly compete.
The fact that this is true by a large margin makes me suspect that a lot of supposedly safety related rules and regs are really there for other social- management reasons, such as making fiddling your income tax harder or something. But that's just a personal gripe.

regards
Mike.

-------------------------
regards Mike


Edited: 02 April 2014 at 01:07 pm by mapj1
 02 April 2014 12:06 pm
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OMS

Posts: 22864
Joined: 23 March 2004

I will contentiously assert that we would save many more lives scrapping part P, and paying the equivalent money that now goes to NICIEC et al, into preventive clinical screening services of one sort or another.


The cost of Part P isn't the problem - from a consumer point of view it has no real cost and from an industry point of view the cost is very modest - as Government intended

In my opinion it's that modest cost that has fuelled the schemes to seek volume membership - and within that volume there has no doubt been a diminution of basic standards of competency to maintain market share.

When that's coupled with the idea of having a two tier "electrician" and "installer" system, then is it any wonder that some employers will seek to capitalise on the uncertainty of who is competent to do what.

I'd expect the total costs of scheme membership, instrument calibration etc to not exceed £1K/annum for most jobbing electricians - that's just over £20/week or less than 50p/hour on rates. Significantly less than that for SME's who can dilute the cost over several employees.

There's no doubt that we could get more safety for the same spend, but personally speaking, Part P simply addressed a missing link in the regulation covering domestic installations - collectively the Building Regs will provide a springboard to improve housing quality, safety and efficiency as we move foward.

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Let the wind blow you, across a big floor.
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