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Topic Title: Test Current and Duration for BS1363 13A plugs
Topic Summary: Overheating plug for a electric car charger
Created On: 09 February 2012 08:23 AM
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 09 February 2012 08:23 AM
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sparkiemike

Posts: 1660
Joined: 24 January 2008

Does any body know what the test current is for a 13A plug and the duration of the test is?

I have a client that has an electric car, it is charged from a single phase 13 socket and plug arrangement. It takes about 7-9 hours for a full charge. A clamp meter shows 12.1A being drawn.

He has had to change the 13A plug several times due to overheating. We have tried different manufacturers (MK and Master) and used the ruggerised type. The socket outlet has also been replaced.

Using a 16A C-form plug and socket is not really an option because the charging posts in the city are mostly 13A, and have a locking mechanism to prevent theft of the charging cable. The c-form plugs with adapters would make the cable vunerable to theft.

So is the 13A plug and socket suitable for this application?
Has anybody else come across this, and suggestions welcome?
 09 February 2012 08:52 AM
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sparkingchip

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Ask the guys who wrote the book!

http://www.theiet.org/forums/f...yword1=car%20charging

Andy
 09 February 2012 09:13 AM
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spinlondon

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The test current is 14A for a single, 20A for a double(14A + 6A), and the duration is 4-8 hours.
Maximum temperature should be no more than 52ºC.
 09 February 2012 09:18 AM
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sparkiemike

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Originally posted by: spinlondon

The test current is 14A for a single, 20A for a double(14A + 6A), and the duration is 4-8 hours.

Maximum temperature should be no more than 52ºC.


That appears to be for a socket.
 09 February 2012 09:29 AM
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perspicacious

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Well Annex A on p55 of the IET CoP for EV charging equipment installation that finally arrived in the post Tuesday, only shows 3 types of charging connector, Yazaki, Mennekes and EV plug alliance connector, none of which look anything like the 13 A and 16 A discussed above.

For domestic installations, unless particular arrangements have been made with the electricity supplier, demand must not exceed 32 A.

PME requires special consideration.

There is a DNO notification form to complete.

I haven't taken it all in yet, but there's a lot more to it than installing a 13 A "weatherproof" socket-outlet

Regards

BOD
 09 February 2012 09:36 AM
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sparkiemike

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That might be so BOD, but the car dealership is supplying these vehicles with a charging cable with a 13A plug, the owner has a garage and simply plugs it into an existing socket.

This seem to be a normal arragement, and to quote from Andy's link

In most cases, EVs can be charged from a standard electric socket, so businesses or individuals can recharge them at their own premises and homes.
 09 February 2012 09:39 AM
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sparkingchip

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 09 February 2012 09:45 AM
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perspicacious

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"but the car dealership is supplying these vehicles with a charging cable with a 13A plug, the owner has a garage and simply plugs it into an existing socket."

They are hardly likely to dissuade sales by advising that the customer needs to spend £x on an installation to be able to charge the product

This sounds like the sort of case I enjoy getting involved with by asking the dealer all sorts of initially, innocent questions and then having got all the ammunition from the dealer, turn it round and fire at him

Regards

BOD
 09 February 2012 10:04 AM
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spinlondon

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Originally posted by: sparkiemike
Originally posted by: spinlondon
The test current is 14A for a single, 20A for a double(14A + 6A), and the duration is 4-8 hours.
Maximum temperature should be no more than 52ºC.


That appears to be for a socket.


The test is conducted by plugging 13A plugs into the socket-outlets.
Wouldn't be much use, if the plugs failed to comply.
 09 February 2012 10:21 AM
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broadgage

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IMHO 13 amp plugs and sockets are not suitable for continual use at, or very close to, full load.
Perhaps for this reason, very few modern domestic appliances use more than about 10 amps/2.4KW
The main exception being kettles which of course are used only for a few minutes.

Would it be possible to obtain a second charging lead for the car ? use the one with a 13 amp plug when charging from a public charging point, and a second lead fitted with a 15 amp or 16 amp plug when charging at home.

If this cant be done, then I would suggest a metalclad 13 amp socket, as these seem to be better able to disipate heat.
Use a good qaulity 13 amp plug and pay exceedingly careful attention to the tighness of the connections in the plug.
Take care that the fuse is a reputable one, and a tight fit.

Is the battery charger adjustable ? could the input current be limited to say 10 amps ? that should solve the problem if the longer charging time is acceptable.

As a last resort, I have been known to solder the flex to the plug terminals, and to solder the fuse in place. This avoids any even slightly high resistance connections and results in much cooler running.
It is however contary to regulations as equpment is being used other than as instructed.
 09 February 2012 10:22 AM
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sparkingchip

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A quick Google and it looks like sparkiemike is right http://www.electriccarsite.co....ic-car-charging-points it even has a nice picture of a post with a 13 amp socket.

I did get as far as looking at the draft code of practice and as Bod said above that indicates a different requirement.

I do believe that electricians are supposed to have a financial windfall installing chargers for electric cars, that won't happen if you can plug them into any old 13 amp outlet, will it!

Andy
 09 February 2012 10:23 AM
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Ricicle

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I have had this problem with a Bain Marie in our site canteen that took just over 12 amps constantly. After trying different combinations of plugs and sockets the issue still arises where the plug runs hot and eventually burns up taking the socket with it.
I am resigned to the fact I will have to change this for a 16A ceeform plug and socket.

-------------------------
Empty barrels make the most noise.
 09 February 2012 10:32 AM
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Angram

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Joined: 23 March 2009

The Winter Wiring Matters, on vehicle charging points, seems to envisage 13A plugs and sockets.

MK, I think do a surface mount 2way socket (white) which is supposed to provide better contact arrangement - I think.

Anyway it would be a useful experiment to see if the extra cost is justified!

An adapter cable for the city ?

Is the load higher when the battery is well down?

Contactum 13A socket may be better build quality.
 09 February 2012 10:36 AM
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perspicacious

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"MK, I think do a surface mount 2way socket (white) which is supposed to provide better contact arrangement - I think."

What is the origin of the initialism MK?

Regards

BOD
 09 February 2012 10:38 AM
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sparkiemike

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Having a read of BS_1363-1 (for 13A plugs), it says

The test current as specified in Table 2 shall be passed through the plug and through a load connected to the flexible cord for a minimum continuous period of 4 h or longer until stability is reached with a maximum duration of 8 h, stability being taken as less than 1 K rise within 1 h


Just so my understanding is clear does that mean if the temp stops rising then it is possible they only test for 4 hours, the assumption being that it will not continue to rise if used for a longer duration?
 09 February 2012 10:43 AM
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sparkiemike

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Joined: 24 January 2008

Originally posted by: broadgage

Would it be possible to obtain a second charging lead for the car ? use the one with a 13 amp plug when charging from a public charging point, and a second lead fitted with a 15 amp or 16 amp plug when charging at home.


Already made that suggestion and at £600 it not an option!

If this cant be done, then I would suggest a metalclad 13 amp socket, as these seem to be better able to disipate heat.


It is a MK metal clad single socket outlet (in a cool garage)

Use a good qaulity 13 amp plug and pay exceedingly careful attention to the tighness of the connections in the plug.


Both the master and MK plugs seem to be robust


Thanks for the suggestions

Edited: 09 February 2012 at 10:53 AM by sparkiemike
 09 February 2012 10:46 AM
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sparkingchip

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Wouldn't the problem with a charger be in the first four hours with the load decreasing?

Andy
 09 February 2012 10:48 AM
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perspicacious

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"Already made that suggestion and at £600 it not an option!"

How about using ordinary brass , not solid gold, contacts and do it for £200

Regards

BOD
 09 February 2012 10:51 AM
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sparkiemike

Posts: 1660
Joined: 24 January 2008

Originally posted by: perspicacious

How about using ordinary brass , not solid gold, contacts and do it for £200


That was just for the lead - not for the electrical installation - but I will put it to the dealer
 09 February 2012 11:03 AM
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sparkiemike

Posts: 1660
Joined: 24 January 2008

Originally posted by: Angram
MK, I think do a surface mount 2way socket (white) which is supposed to provide better contact arrangement - I think.


Some specific details would be apprecaited.
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