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Topic Title: Doctors' Surgery Waiting Room.
Topic Summary: Air Changes.
Created On: 20 March 2019 01:30 pm
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 20 March 2019 01:30 pm
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Zoomup

Posts: 6117
Joined: 20 February 2014

Can anybody tell me the required air changes for a doctor's surgery waiting room please?

And is the recommended rate a legal requirement to reduce the possible transmission of diseases or just a suggestion only?

My enquiry relates to an established and operating waiting room.

Thanks,

Z.
 20 March 2019 05:44 pm
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perspicacious

Posts: 8055
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Probably depends on how many patients are there expecting to have their prescription of activated charcoal renewed.......

Regards

BAD
 20 March 2019 05:46 pm
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chrispearson

Posts: 1095
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It's not a clinical area so I doubt that there will be any specific requirements, but somebody else may know better.

In the mean time, if you are worried, I can lend you my old gas mask.
 20 March 2019 05:54 pm
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mapj1

Posts: 12039
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I don't think in the UK you will find any statutory guidance (though in some places, for example some states in the USA are more specific) Ventilation and energy conservation tend to be at odds in modern buildings, and the tendancy is to keep warm on the cheap and ventilate badly, and then try and sell cures for damp and mould.
However, the fan makers have a good body of information about what they consider to be sensible.
ventaxia for example
and htm03 relates to 'proper' medical locations.
Health Technical Memorandum 03-01: Specialised ventilation for healthcare premises
I suggest you go straight to appendix 2 and see everything listed except "waiting room."
Though maybe the 6 changes an hour for a 'general ward' gives an idea of the sort of thing, and ties in well with the Vent Axia figure for 'assembly rooms"

-------------------------
regards Mike
 20 March 2019 06:06 pm
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OMS

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If you start with Health Building Note (HBN) 11-01:Facilities for primary and community care services that will lead you to Health Technical Memorandum (HTM) :03-01 Specialised ventilation for healthcare premises.

HTM 03-01 won't say much about the waiting area - but you should deduce that you need enough fresh air to dilute odours and remove moisture from the ranks of people sitting in there (say 10 litres per second per person) - and you should further deduce that you want the overall air flow to be from clean to dirty spaces.

If it were me, I would be extracting from the waiting area at least 10l/s/p (some of this might already be going out via toilets accessible from the waiting area and allowing the fresh make up air to be via the opening doors to outside and by introducing fresh air into the corridor leading off the reception to the consulting or treatment rooms - at a rate of about 90% of the extract rate.

If in doubt, provide something like 6 air changes per hour in the reception would be a reasonable starting point - again I would tend towards making the space slightly negative in relation to the surgery (but positive in relation to the WC's)

As Chris says, it's not a clinical space - but sensible design would tend towards using ventilation to protect those minor clinical spaces

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Let the wind blow you, across a big floor.
 20 March 2019 07:58 pm
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chrispearson

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Originally posted by: mapj1

Though maybe the 6 changes an hour for a 'general ward' gives an idea of the sort of thing, and ties in well with the Vent Axia figure for 'assembly rooms"


There may be something on line nowadays so you can see for yourselves, but I have read an account of the ventilation at Royal Naval Hospital Haslar (early Georgian).

Imagine sliding sash windows. If you make a high overlap at the bottom, it is possible to open the lower sash a few inches without leaving a gap. However, there will be a gap between the sashes which allows the air to wriggle through an S-bend. That is the intake. The exhausts were openings high in the walls with, IIRC, valves. The windows were large.

The Georgians may not have understood why, but that knew that ventilation was important (it blows bacteria away) as was sunlight (UV kills bacteria).

So there you are, nothing new in medical ventilation.
 20 March 2019 08:23 pm
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Zoomup

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In the mean time, if you are worried, I can lend you my old gas mask.


O.K. Chris, I will borrow it, but only if it is not a girly pink colour.

Z.
 20 March 2019 08:29 pm
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Zoomup

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At present the waiting area is a germ concentration area. It has zero ability to allow air in or out as it has much dead air. The corridor next to it may have air circulation but the waiting area is like a golf fish bowl with all windows glued or painted shut. Even the roof lights' trickle vents at very high level are closed. Germ laden air just swirls around looking for its next victim to infect. You can go in healthy and exit with the lurgy, especially in winter. The Victorians knew about fresh air, sod being warm, they just installed great big ventilators in brick walls and flung windows wide open all year round. Nowadays we sit in germ and chemical smog.

Z.
 21 March 2019 11:29 am
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chrispearson

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There is of course more to this than ventilation. Colds and 'flu' are spread by hand-to-hand contact. You have an itchy runny nose you you scratch, pick, and blow. Then you touch the reception counter, login via the computer on the wall, touch the arms of chairs, etc. Then along comes the next patient or member of staff who touches what you have touched. Everybody scratches their nose from time to time, which completes the transmission pathway.

Spread of gut organisms is similar.
 21 March 2019 11:47 am
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Zoomup

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I agree that many bugs can be picked up via touch and then licking fingers or touching eyes etc. But many bugs are airborne and diseases can be spread by couching, sneezing or vomiting.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_disease

Z.
 21 March 2019 12:18 pm
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ebee

Posts: 6735
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Such a high concentration of infected folk don`t bode well.
Only go to the doctors if you need to get ill, it`s a dead cert.
Drs and hospitals keep it far too warm and stuffy, it breeds germs and increases their profits.
That`s before we mention the public at large havong dirty habits.
How often does a supermarket cashier lick the bag begore they give it to you.
I have often been known to spit on a baknote (actually just pretending to) and when they react with disgust I tell them that they started it, then insist they go and was their hands. Any objection and I ask for the manager.

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 21 March 2019 06:15 pm
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rocknroll

Posts: 9677
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Well considering 90% of pathogens especially the nasty ones are not airborne related and come from hand to mouth, food, intimate contact, animals and insects I don't think a few sniffles is anything to worry about, put it down to Darwinism and crack on with life.

I think you could be worried if the resident forum grey star bandit chucked a biological weapon into the waiting room as they knew were there.

When are you all abandoning me and heading for pastures new on the other side??

Regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 21 March 2019 07:00 pm
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Zoomup

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Many common infections can spread by airborne transmission at least in some cases, including: Anthrax (inhalational), Chickenpox, Influenza, Measles, Smallpox, Cryptococcosis, and Tuberculosis.

Z.
 21 March 2019 07:12 pm
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chrispearson

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Originally posted by: Zoomup

Many common infections can spread by airborne transmission at least in some cases, including: Anthrax (inhalational), Chickenpox, Influenza, Measles, Smallpox, Cryptococcosis, and Tuberculosis.


Doesn't bother me - with the exception of cryptowhatsit, either I've had them or been vaccinated against them.

Next please! Now then Mr Up, what seems to be the problem?
 21 March 2019 07:17 pm
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potential

Posts: 1774
Joined: 01 February 2007

On the very few occasions I have visited my doctor's waiting room in the last few decades I have been more interested in the plethora of conduit and other electrical work scattered around the rooms and corridors.
I noticed last time I was there they'd removed the rather twee wall lights (complete with pretty shades) and replaced them with plain glaringly bright LEDs just slightly above eye level when seated.
After 20 minutes of that I could hardly see clearly at all.
Perhaps they should included some UV lamps in them as well to tackle germs and pathogens while at the same time supplementing the patients' vitamin D intake and as a bonus a give everyone a tan too.
 21 March 2019 08:00 pm
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Zoomup

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and replace the old 1984 copy of Nadger's World on the waiting room table.

Z.
 21 March 2019 08:05 pm
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rocknroll

Posts: 9677
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Booking hell, Booking.com do sterile bubbles in their holiday accommodation list for people afraid of germs.

Regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
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