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Topic Title: Own up , who done it....
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Created On: 14 March 2019 09:54 pm
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 14 March 2019 09:54 pm
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dustydazzler

Posts: 3068
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?tim...8&v=-Q3MYJBImWA


I'm so glad in 2005 work such as this will be avoided ...

Edited: 14 March 2019 at 10:03 pm by dustydazzler
 15 March 2019 07:23 am
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dustydazzler

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My personal favourite is at 7.48 , 'pop up extendable kitchen socket' absolutely marvellous

Got to love builders who are electricians
 15 March 2019 09:52 am
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tomgunn

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Originally posted by: dustydazzler

My personal favourite is at 7.48 , 'pop up extendable kitchen socket' absolutely marvellous



Got to love builders who are electricians


Haha, I'm the other way around... I'm a sparks who is a builder too, BTW - the link don't work!

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Tom.... (The TERMINATOR).

handyTRADESMAN

Castle Builders
 15 March 2019 11:52 am
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dustydazzler

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 15 March 2019 12:33 pm
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ebee

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Hey why is that utube guy pulling my works to bits?

The link worked for me Tomm

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Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 15 March 2019 12:51 pm
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dustydazzler

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Take no notice ebee , I thought it was a pukka job

the extension kitchen socket was pure genius
 15 March 2019 01:42 pm
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mapj1

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The real problem with a job like that is that you cannot really trust anything you cannot see to have not been bodged, so while it may be OK, there is a lot to check before it is safe to add to it. - some of which may not be dangerous, but is not a recognised standard.

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regards Mike
 15 March 2019 01:49 pm
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dustydazzler

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The flat was wired in buried micc , I am guessing a 1950s/60s installation ?

I have done a few flat refurbish jobs and we simply ripped out everything and start from scratch

I still don't and will never get the logic of installing a £30,000 kitchen and keeping the 70 year old wiring...

just rip the ruddy lot out and do it right
 15 March 2019 01:59 pm
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Legh

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If the previous bloke had tested the buried pyro,(cough). and found it to be serviceable, which is not unreasonable, then its perfecctly acceptable to continue to use it. making new connections from the buried stuff is something else .
I thought the chap in the YTV was a little over excited until he relaxed and produced some useful critical analysis.....

Legh

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http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

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 15 March 2019 05:19 pm
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Zoomup

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The installation as it is now can not be trusted to be safe at all. The old M.I.C.C. cables may well have been serviceable and may it have been possible to reuse some or all of them, adding new cables where necessary. The customer has wasted a lot of money which has been paid to an amateur that has left the flat in a dangerous state. A call to the Trading Standards' Dept. is in order.

http://www.mineralinsulatedcab...ny.com/micc-why-micc/

Z.

Edited: 15 March 2019 at 05:26 pm by Zoomup
 16 March 2019 08:13 am
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tomgunn

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Originally posted by: ebee

Hey why is that utube guy pulling my works to bits? [IMG][/IMG]



The link worked for me Tomm


Hiya, wow! The link still doesn't work for me this morning!!

Tried it several times now! Damn! What's 'pyro'?

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Tom.... (The TERMINATOR).

handyTRADESMAN

Castle Builders

Edited: 16 March 2019 at 05:04 pm by tomgunn
 16 March 2019 09:05 am
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dustydazzler

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 16 March 2019 09:53 am
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mapj1

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'pyro' == pyrotenax cable, the mineral insulated metal jacketed stuff, with the useful characteristic that it keeps working while all around it is red hot.

has a distressing tendency to absorb moisture into the mineral insulation and fail the meggar tests, as the end terminations are not easily made perfectly gas-tight, but can be dried out with a gas torch, if the surrounding building material permits.

used to be mandated for things like churches and fire alarms, and some buildings with fire compartmentation, like flats.

Bit of a knack to fitting it, but can be beautiful when done well.

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regards Mike
 16 March 2019 05:10 pm
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tomgunn

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Originally posted by: mapj1

'pyro' == pyrotenax cable, the mineral insulated metal jacketed stuff, with the useful characteristic that it keeps working while all around it is red hot.



has a distressing tendency to absorb moisture into the mineral insulation and fail the meggar tests, as the end terminations are not easily made perfectly gas-tight, but can be dried out with a gas torch, if the surrounding building material permits.



used to be mandated for things like churches and fire alarms, and some buildings with fire compartmentation, like flats.



Bit of a knack to fitting it, but can be beautiful when done well.


Ah! I didn't know that and thanks for the details too! Must look more up!

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handyTRADESMAN

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 16 March 2019 11:13 pm
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potential

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I liked working with pyro but it required quite a lot of experience, skill, the proper tools and strength to install it particularly the really large stuff.
It is difficult to extend though because by its nature the terminations are very neat and leave little to play with but it's not impossible.
Much would depend on how well it was installed in the first place.
If the original terminations were not made up properly it could become a nightmare.

I cringed watching the video, not only at the wiring but also at the chunks of paint pulled off the wall and stuck to the socket edges which will look a mess when put back.

Nothing I haven't seen before though.
It could be worse.
There were no nails or silver foil from cigarette packets in any fuse holder, the polarity was correct, the wires had insulation on them for the most part and it was all dead when the main switch was turned off.
 16 March 2019 11:37 pm
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Legh

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I believe most of the WW2 aerodromes were wired in Pyrotechnics cable systems, (Pyro, MICC, MIMS) It was found when the buildings were bombed, the circuits were unaffected. (bomb proof). Although, you'd probably have to replace the light bulbs!

To add, its most likely weakness are at the terminations. The sealing caps are plastic and rated at 105 deg C. A better fire proof alternative are the ceramic discs which are rated at 350 deg C.

Legh

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Edited: 16 March 2019 at 11:48 pm by Legh
 17 March 2019 06:34 am
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dustydazzler

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From my limited experience with micc (pyro) it is very tough , you can stand on it , smack it with a hammer and it will survive.
But once you start messing with the terminations and having to re-do glands you are buggered. Moisture can get in and the cable will fail.

No wonder this dodgy builder just lashed in on the ends and covered it all up never to be seen , or so he thought.....
 17 March 2019 08:25 am
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tomgunn

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Originally posted by: dustydazzler

From my limited experience with micc (pyro) it is very tough , you can stand on it , smack it with a hammer and it will survive.

But once you start messing with the terminations and having to re-do glands you are buggered. Moisture can get in and the cable will fail.



No wonder this dodgy builder just lashed in on the ends and covered it all up never to be seen , or so he thought.....


Working with pyro is easy, really! We ran a dozen or so BARE pyro's up a wall in the Canadian embassy, circa 1968, as it used to be the American embassy before this. The plasterers' came along and even though they were small pyro's, (2/.044 or 1.0mm these day's and
3/.026 - 1.5mm and some larger too, etc), they felt that they protruded too much for the depth of their plastering... haha, they flattened them all and we just said... 'sod 'em' and let them carry on and nothing happened, all working fine... I guess to this day?

Just one rule applies, I think... when starting off a new roll cut the first foot, (oooops! 100mm nowadays!), to make sure you get a clear reading!

regards... Tom

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Tom.... (The TERMINATOR).

handyTRADESMAN

Castle Builders

Edited: 19 March 2019 at 11:19 am by tomgunn
 17 March 2019 08:42 am
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ebee

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magic tom, how do you convert 100mm to one imperial foot - that is a very good material saving feat of engineering

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 17 March 2019 11:55 am
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potential

Posts: 1774
Joined: 01 February 2007

Test every length of pyro before it was installed was my motto.
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Own up , who done it....

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