IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: Certifying work..
Topic Summary:
Created On: 10 March 2019 05:07 pm
Status: Read Only
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 10 March 2019 05:07 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Clintrose1

Posts: 62
Joined: 10 November 2016

What certificate would be given out for additional sockets etc?

What certificate would be given out for adding a new a circuit?

What is needed to complete a electrical condition report , other than a competent person completing this?

Is there certain schemes people would be involved with? Such as niceic, napit, elecsa etc?

Or can someone still self certify there work with having the knowledge and certificates to do so?
 10 March 2019 05:18 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



geoffsd

Posts: 2342
Joined: 15 June 2010

Sockets - Minor Electrical Installation Work Certificate.
New Circuit - Electrical Installation Certificate.
Report - Anyone, although obviously a very experienced electrician should be chosen.
Scheme membership is only required to avoid paying the Local Authority's considerable fee for notifiable work.
Anyone can make out a certificate, but confusion arises because, in their infinite wisdom the powers that be chose to call self notification to the LA by the misnomer of Self Certification.
 10 March 2019 05:25 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



dustydazzler

Posts: 3068
Joined: 19 January 2016

Socket - minor works
Brand new circuit - installation cert
Condition Report - badgers work
Scams - not for me
Self cert - yes
 10 March 2019 05:42 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Clintrose1

Posts: 62
Joined: 10 November 2016

Originally posted by: geoffsd

Sockets - Minor Electrical Installation Work Certificate.

New Circuit - Electrical Installation Certificate.

Report - Anyone, although obviously a very experienced electrician should be chosen.

Scheme membership is only required to avoid paying the Local Authority's considerable fee for notifiable work.

Anyone can make out a certificate, but confusion arises because, in their infinite wisdom the powers that be chose to call self notification to the LA by the misnomer of Self Certification.


.... So I decide to go adding sockets ( I won't be ) around the house, go and buy some Minor Electrical Installation Work certificates. Then put that with house files. Seems unsafe, I would of thought such thing would have a lot more regulations around this to prevent this happening from someone who doesn't have the right qualifications?
 10 March 2019 06:15 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



dustydazzler

Posts: 3068
Joined: 19 January 2016

Originally posted by: Clintrose1

Originally posted by: geoffsd



Sockets - Minor Electrical Installation Work Certificate.



New Circuit - Electrical Installation Certificate.



Report - Anyone, although obviously a very experienced electrician should be chosen.



Scheme membership is only required to avoid paying the Local Authority's considerable fee for notifiable work.



Anyone can make out a certificate, but confusion arises because, in their infinite wisdom the powers that be chose to call self notification to the LA by the misnomer of Self Certification.




.... So I decide to go adding sockets ( I won't be ) around the house, go and buy some Minor Electrical Installation Work certificates. Then put that with house files. Seems unsafe, I would of thought such thing would have a lot more regulations around this to prevent this happening from someone who doesn't have the right qualifications?


I am not a trained mechanic , but
I can go buy new brakes for my motor bike and fit them myself and sell it straight to you untested without any qualifications or vetting

its called buyer beware
 10 March 2019 06:33 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mikejumper

Posts: 2810
Joined: 14 December 2006

Originally posted by: Clintrose1
..Seems unsafe, I would of thought such thing would have a lot more regulations around this to prevent this happening from someone who doesn't have the right qualifications?

Regulations don't prevent bad or unsafe wiring being carried out because plenty of people choose to ignore them.
 10 March 2019 07:04 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Clintrose1

Posts: 62
Joined: 10 November 2016

I just expected that it was mandatory to have paper trail for electrics, an for me yes they can give me a piece of paper from a shop to say it's safe, but it's only me that sees this, so really they could fraudulent a made up name on this certificate?

I ask these questions as I have my house which is due a test soon, an someone who quoted me said this is his method of doing things, he isn't with Napit, Niceic or any of those that the government recommend.
 10 March 2019 07:32 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



dustydazzler

Posts: 3068
Joined: 19 January 2016

What are your concerns ?

If you have asked someone to do a condition report you will get just that , a report on the general condition of the fixed portion of the wiring

It isn't a guarantee or warranty of anything , its just a list if codes and if you are lucky a cover note what needs looking at
 10 March 2019 07:50 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Fitzy71

Posts: 311
Joined: 27 February 2018

Originally posted by: Clintrose1

.... So I decide to go adding sockets ( I won't be ) around the house, go and buy some Minor Electrical Installation Work certificates. Then put that with house files. Seems unsafe, I would of thought such thing would have a lot more regulations around this to prevent this happening from someone who doesn't have the right qualifications?


It's not just a case of installing the new sockets and filling out the MWC, you'll need to do all the correct testing on the new sockets etc.
 10 March 2019 08:16 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Jaymack

Posts: 5571
Joined: 07 April 2004

Unfortunately, anybody can carry out electrical work, but there is work that is notifiable under Part P of the building regulations, offenders who don't notify such work are liable to prosecution, but I don't know of anybody that's been collared; if there was an incident involving property damage, injury or worse then it could lead to prosecution. Only a skilled person would be able to issue electrical certificates. Also, giving advice to DIY persons is not recommended on an electrician's forum.

Regards
 10 March 2019 08:32 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Jaymack

Posts: 5571
Joined: 07 April 2004

Originally posted by: Clintrose1
I ask these questions as I have my house which is due a test soon, an someone who quoted me said this is his method of doing things, he isn't with Napit, Niceic or any of those that the government recommend.

How would you recognise that a inspection certificate, or any other electrical certificate was acceptable?. You would have more assurance with a document issued from a registered electrician; although not wholly, since even they can issue incorrect content in documents. If sensible, you have to ask yourself "Why is this electrician not registered", "Am I and my family at risk" and "Am I covered by insurance"?

Regards
 11 March 2019 07:42 am
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mapj1

Posts: 12039
Joined: 22 July 2004

To be fair, while some DIY work is awful, it is also normally obvious, there is also quite a lot of dangerous stuff done by members of trade organisations and their employees, who really should know better.
But, like the car repairs, even so, the risk is very low.
In the UK there were 26 electrocutions last year, and some 4000 electrical fires, of which the majority are appliances, not wiring, and last year by far the most destructive was an incident with a fridge in Grenfell Tower.
That needs to be compared to self food poisoning, and car crashes which are more than ten times more likely to hospitalise or to kill you.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 11 March 2019 08:01 am
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



dustydazzler

Posts: 3068
Joined: 19 January 2016

Just to add just because a certificate isn't evident doesn't mean the install is dangerous and doesn't necessarily mean it hasn't been tested
 11 March 2019 10:22 am
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



chrispearson

Posts: 1095
Joined: 15 February 2018

Originally posted by: Clintrose1

.... So I decide to go adding sockets ( I won't be ) around the house, go and buy some Minor Electrical Installation Work certificates.


You don't need to buy MEIWCs - they may be downloaded free of charge.

134.1.1 Good workmanship by one or more skilled or instructed persons and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation.

Any reasonably dexterous person should be capable of doing minor electrical work to a good standard.

However, 134.2.1 During erection and on completion of an installation or an addition or alteration to an installation, and before it is put into service, appropriate inspection and testing shall be carried out by skilled persons competent to verify that the requirements of this Standard have been met.

Appropriate certification shall be issued in accordance with Chapter 64.


That's the tricky bit. A home owner may very well be skilled in the erection of the installation, but is unlikely that he or she will have any test equipment.
 11 March 2019 10:25 am
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



chrispearson

Posts: 1095
Joined: 15 February 2018

Originally posted by: Clintrose1

I ask these questions as I have my house which is due a test soon, an someone who quoted me said this is his method of doing things, he isn't with Napit, Niceic or any of those that the government recommend.


The work is not notifiable so your electrician doesn't have to be registered with a CPS; but he should have public liability and professional indemnity insurance.
 11 March 2019 10:43 am
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



dustydazzler

Posts: 3068
Joined: 19 January 2016

I don't even think you need indemnity insurance ,

I have 2 million PL and that is it
 11 March 2019 11:45 am
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mikejumper

Posts: 2810
Joined: 14 December 2006

Originally posted by: mapj1
...In the UK there were 26 electrocutions last year,...

And in London alone there were 132 murders.
 11 March 2019 11:53 am
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



dustydazzler

Posts: 3068
Joined: 19 January 2016

Originally posted by: mikejumper

Originally posted by: mapj1

...In the UK there were 26 electrocutions last year,...



And in London alone there were 132 murders.


I read somewhere that you are 5 x more likely to be run over by a bus than be shocked in a house
 11 March 2019 01:01 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



AJJewsbury

Posts: 17795
Joined: 13 August 2003

Sockets - Minor Electrical Installation Work Certificate.
New Circuit - Electrical Installation Certificate. plus Building Regs Completion Certificate (in England & Wales at least)
Report - Anyone, although obviously a very experienced electrician should be chosen.
Scheme membership is only required to avoid paying the Local Authority's considerable fee for notifiable work.
Anyone can make out a certificate, but confusion arises because, in their infinite wisdom the powers that be chose to call self notification to the LA by the misnomer of Self Certification.


It's the building regs cert that's the tricky one (for the likes of me at least). The traditional route is to notify via the local authority building control dept and they'll issue the building regs completion certificate (after doing their overseeing and free charging); or competent persons' scheme members can issue the building regs certificate themselves (even if normally the scheme operators do the actual printing and posting of the paperwork - it's still the memeber's name on it).
- Andy.
 11 March 2019 05:16 pm
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



geoffsd

Posts: 2342
Joined: 15 June 2010

or competent persons' scheme members can issue the building regs certificate themselves (even if normally the scheme operators do the actual printing and posting of the paperwork - it's still the memeber's name on it).


and just for fun, this is called a "Certificate of Compliance".
Statistics

New here?

  • To participate in discussions, please log in and introduce yourself.

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2021 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.

 
..