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Topic Title: electric cars
Topic Summary: just on the news breaking...ban of diesel and petrol by 2040
Created On: 26 July 2017 01:36 pm
Status: Read Only
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 26 July 2017 01:36 pm  
 electric cars   - MWalker86 - 26 July 2017 02:41 pm  
 electric cars   - geoffsd - 26 July 2017 03:05 pm  
 electric cars   - MWalker86 - 26 July 2017 03:20 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 26 July 2017 03:28 pm  
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 26 July 2017 03:05 pm  
 electric cars   - geoffsd - 26 July 2017 03:32 pm  
 electric cars   - MWalker86 - 26 July 2017 03:42 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 26 July 2017 04:29 pm  
 electric cars   - rocknroll - 26 July 2017 04:57 pm  
 electric cars   - mapj1 - 26 July 2017 07:00 pm  
 electric cars   - MWalker86 - 26 July 2017 08:03 pm  
 electric cars   - hertzal123 - 26 July 2017 08:56 pm  
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 26 July 2017 09:17 pm  
 electric cars   - mapj1 - 26 July 2017 11:38 pm  
 electric cars   - ebee - 27 July 2017 12:42 am  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 27 July 2017 09:30 am  
 electric cars   - mapj1 - 27 July 2017 09:51 am  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 27 July 2017 02:13 pm  
 electric cars   - geoffsd - 27 July 2017 02:53 pm  
 electric cars   - sparkingchip - 29 July 2017 09:23 pm  
 electric cars   - sparkingchip - 29 July 2017 09:36 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 30 July 2017 08:06 am  
 electric cars   - broadgage - 30 July 2017 09:44 am  
 electric cars   - sparkingchip - 29 July 2017 09:26 pm  
 electric cars   - antric2 - 31 July 2017 09:25 pm  
 electric cars   - potential - 01 August 2017 09:13 am  
 electric cars   - ectophile - 01 August 2017 01:15 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 01 August 2017 01:32 pm  
 electric cars   - AJJewsbury - 27 July 2017 04:14 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 27 July 2017 04:29 pm  
 electric cars   - sparkingchip - 27 July 2017 05:23 pm  
 electric cars   - mapj1 - 28 July 2017 12:06 am  
 electric cars   - arg - 28 July 2017 10:17 am  
 electric cars   - Fm - 28 July 2017 10:24 am  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 28 July 2017 12:13 pm  
 electric cars   - ebee - 28 July 2017 12:35 pm  
 electric cars   - arg - 28 July 2017 04:15 pm  
 electric cars   - Zs - 28 July 2017 07:58 pm  
 electric cars   - rocknroll - 28 July 2017 10:07 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 29 July 2017 09:45 am  
 electric cars   - sparkingchip - 28 July 2017 01:46 pm  
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 29 July 2017 10:24 am  
 electric cars   - AJJewsbury - 29 July 2017 08:45 pm  
 electric cars   - AJJewsbury - 30 July 2017 10:11 am  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 31 July 2017 07:49 am  
 electric cars   - AJJewsbury - 31 July 2017 09:54 am  
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 31 July 2017 10:33 am  
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 01 August 2017 01:08 pm  
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 28 July 2017 04:15 pm
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arg

Posts: 254
Joined: 18 March 2015

Originally posted by: davezawadi

OK Arg not much different to my numbers really. However these "average" numbers are hopeless for planning.


Well, actions to force things towards the average are the way to make this actually feasible. Certainly the overnight charging situation is completely unmanageable if you let people charge when they feel like, but comes close to solving the whole problem if you get the charging spread through the available hours (by offering an appropriate tariff - Economy 7 is already helping here).


Charging has to be 24 hr availability as otherwise any trip longer than 60 miles is no longer possible without an overnight stay. I can see motorway services offering charge at £5 per kWh already!


Yes, public rapid charging will, and should be, expensive - but the need to use it should be rare. 60 miles is already at the lowest end of the available capacities, and I'd expect such cars (if they continue to exist) to be bought only in the 2nd car/commuter car role. It's generally considered that 200 miles range is needed for mass-market acceptance (and such vehicles are within sight from multiple manufacurers). With that sort of range, you only need public charging a few times a year, and have spare capacity much of the rest of the time to make the averaging work better.


So the non-green conventional generating capacity has to meet another 10GW peak load on a dark wet windless day, and that is an "average figure",


Where do you get that figure from?


every house with 4 cars taking an extra 120A at night might also be amusing for the distribution infrastructure, as might every house taking 30A extra, it would lead to total failure immediately because each 50 - 60 houses usually have one 600A fuse!


Which is why tariffs and control systems need to arrange that those 4 cars (each doing only 20 miles a day and so needing 30A for only an hour) charge sequentially rather than all at once.

That 600A over 8 night-time hours can deliver 16kWh to each house (with 2kWh spare to run their fridges etc). That's about 60 miles, enough for 3 cars per house doing an average 20 miles each.

Yes, there will be hot-spots, estates with above average commuting mileages on account of where they are located, and some reinforcement work will be required; equally, there will be areas where there's no extra needed at all.


I wouldn't claim that the Government have a joined-up strategy here - they plainly don't - but from an engineering perspective this is achievable if there is reason to do it.
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