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Topic Title: electric cars
Topic Summary: just on the news breaking...ban of diesel and petrol by 2040
Created On: 26 July 2017 01:36 pm
Status: Read Only
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 26 July 2017 01:36 pm  
 electric cars   - MWalker86 - 26 July 2017 02:41 pm  
 electric cars   - geoffsd - 26 July 2017 03:05 pm  
 electric cars   - MWalker86 - 26 July 2017 03:20 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 26 July 2017 03:28 pm  
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 26 July 2017 03:05 pm  
 electric cars   - geoffsd - 26 July 2017 03:32 pm  
 electric cars   - MWalker86 - 26 July 2017 03:42 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 26 July 2017 04:29 pm  
 electric cars   - rocknroll - 26 July 2017 04:57 pm  
 electric cars   - mapj1 - 26 July 2017 07:00 pm  
 electric cars   - MWalker86 - 26 July 2017 08:03 pm  
 electric cars   - hertzal123 - 26 July 2017 08:56 pm  
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 26 July 2017 09:17 pm  
 electric cars   - mapj1 - 26 July 2017 11:38 pm  
 electric cars   - ebee - 27 July 2017 12:42 am  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 27 July 2017 09:30 am  
 electric cars   - mapj1 - 27 July 2017 09:51 am  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 27 July 2017 02:13 pm  
 electric cars   - geoffsd - 27 July 2017 02:53 pm  
 electric cars   - sparkingchip - 29 July 2017 09:23 pm  
 electric cars   - sparkingchip - 29 July 2017 09:36 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 30 July 2017 08:06 am  
 electric cars   - broadgage - 30 July 2017 09:44 am  
 electric cars   - sparkingchip - 29 July 2017 09:26 pm  
 electric cars   - antric2 - 31 July 2017 09:25 pm  
 electric cars   - potential - 01 August 2017 09:13 am  
 electric cars   - ectophile - 01 August 2017 01:15 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 01 August 2017 01:32 pm  
 electric cars   - AJJewsbury - 27 July 2017 04:14 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 27 July 2017 04:29 pm  
 electric cars   - sparkingchip - 27 July 2017 05:23 pm  
 electric cars   - mapj1 - 28 July 2017 12:06 am  
 electric cars   - arg - 28 July 2017 10:17 am  
 electric cars   - Fm - 28 July 2017 10:24 am  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 28 July 2017 12:13 pm  
 electric cars   - ebee - 28 July 2017 12:35 pm  
 electric cars   - arg - 28 July 2017 04:15 pm  
 electric cars   - Zs - 28 July 2017 07:58 pm  
 electric cars   - rocknroll - 28 July 2017 10:07 pm  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 29 July 2017 09:45 am  
 electric cars   - sparkingchip - 28 July 2017 01:46 pm  
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 29 July 2017 10:24 am  
 electric cars   - AJJewsbury - 29 July 2017 08:45 pm  
 electric cars   - AJJewsbury - 30 July 2017 10:11 am  
 electric cars   - davezawadi - 31 July 2017 07:49 am  
 electric cars   - AJJewsbury - 31 July 2017 09:54 am  
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 31 July 2017 10:33 am  
 electric cars   - psychicwarrior - 01 August 2017 01:08 pm  
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 26 July 2017 03:28 pm
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davezawadi

Posts: 4259
Joined: 26 June 2002

Electric car changing would need the generating capacity to be increased by 30 - 50%, but let us assume the best case of 20GW, 30%. This would charge about 6 million cars at the standard rate, or perhaps 1 million Teslas at the quick (1 hour) rate. We are building Hinkley C to generate about 2GW, and many gas turbine CCGT plants to cover the deficit present now. Note that these use gas and produce both CO2 and NOx, although this is not usually mentioned. Other sources of NOx are space heating, and other types of fuel burning at high temperatures, such as steel making, and lightning (probably 1500 tonnes last week). The usual answer that we can use solar / wind is completely untrue, because we cannot store energy when they are unavailable. Unless you controlled charge times and quantities to a low level, and found a way to tax at different rates, the treasury would loose £20 billion per year in fuel tax, need huge new power stations (green) and have to fund new infrastructure of the grid and electricity distribution to every road with houses. All immensely expensive!

Batteries are suggested as providing such storage, but this is also untrue in bulk because they are inherently very dangerous, as is any concentrated source of energy. A 1GWhr battery contains 15,000,000,000,000J (15 trillion joules), comparable to the power of an atom bomb and similarly damaging should it explode! It is roughly equivalent to 600,000 litres of diesel fuel or 1000 tonnes of TNT. The pumped storage scheme in Wales is also roughly equivalent, and to depend on it in any reliable way we would need at least 5 days of storage of the wind maximum capacity plus some of the solar in case of bad weather, lets assume at least 200GWhr. This would mean flooding most of upland Wales to provide additional storage, and many more pumps / turbines to move the water and produce power when required. The process is also quite inefficient, needing even more windmills and solar panels!

Anyone any good answers to these, and then there are trucks and buses and trains and ships and space heating and industrial processes (steel making) and.......?

-------------------------
David
BSc CEng MIET


Edited: 26 July 2017 at 03:39 pm by davezawadi
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