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18 April 2013 04:01 PM
rougediablo Posts: 112 Joined: 09 November 2011	Is the area above a wash basin considered to be in Zone 2 in a bathroom? Nothing in the BGB but a diagram I've seen eleswhere shows it as Zone 2 up to 60cm above. Basin in question is more than 60cm from edge of bath/shower so outside of Zone 2.
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18 April 2013 04:08 PM
geoffsd Posts: 2342 Joined: 15 June 2010	No. Not zone 2 because of basin. You don't stand in it.
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18 April 2013 04:11 PM
AJJewsbury Posts: 17795 Joined: 13 August 2003	Certainly not in BS 7671 - but like you I've seen it in some pretty pictures distributed by certain retailers. If I was feeling charitable I might suggest it was a simple way for the retailers to merge manufacturer's requirements and BS 7671's more general requirements (e.g. suitable for the environment and equipment not being splashproof) into the more specific special locations requirements, but I don't often feel that way. They also seem to think that a window recess is automatically zone 2 too - which makes me think they're driven more by FUD than logic. - Andy.
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18 April 2013 04:17 PM
rougediablo Posts: 112 Joined: 09 November 2011	That's what I thought, plumbers been feeding the people a good line in b******t. He also told them the lights he's altered (changed a single centre fitting for downlighters) & the fan he's fitted off the lighting circuit didn't need a MWEIC & that the work was non notifiable under Part P.
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18 April 2013 04:53 PM
daveparry1 Posts: 8020 Joined: 04 July 2007	Now not notifiable but should still have an MWC! Dave.
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18 April 2013 04:35 PM
AJJewsbury Posts: 17795 Joined: 13 August 2003	& that the work was non notifiable under Part P If outside zones, that's true since 6th April. - Andy.
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18 April 2013 04:49 PM
rougediablo Posts: 112 Joined: 09 November 2011	Originally posted by: AJJewsbury & that the work was non notifiable under Part P If outside zones, that's true since 6th April. - Andy. Not in Wales
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18 April 2013 04:56 PM
AJJewsbury Posts: 17795 Joined: 13 August 2003	Not in Wales Good point! - Andy.
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18 April 2013 05:08 PM
rougediablo Posts: 112 Joined: 09 November 2011	I also doubt he's put any RCD preotection for the modified part of the circuit (as I doubt there's any at the CU) or that he's checked that the main bonding is adequate. Job is a bathroom refit at the inlaws & I think I may have opened a large metal container full of earth dewlling creatures here Will call round at the weekend for a look. .
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18 April 2013 05:12 PM
geoffsd Posts: 2342 Joined: 15 June 2010	Outside zones wasn't notifiable before April 6 either, so, still not notifiable in Wales
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18 April 2013 05:22 PM
rougediablo Posts: 112 Joined: 09 November 2011	Originally posted by: geoffsd Outside zones wasn't notifiable before April 6 either, so, still not notifiable in Wales You sure? Have a look at page 8 Part P
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18 April 2013 05:28 PM
geoffsd Posts: 2342 Joined: 15 June 2010	I'm sure. Better still, look at schedule 4 - the actual law - old rules. Bottom of page - definition of special locations. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/...0/2214/schedule/4/made
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19 April 2013 09:07 AM
rougediablo Posts: 112 Joined: 09 November 2011	Originally posted by: geoffsd I'm sure. Better still, look at schedule 4 - the actual law - old rules. Bottom of page - definition of special locations. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/...0/2214/schedule/4/made I stand corrected. I spoke to someone at the Building Control & he initially said definitely Part P notifiable. I then asked him to look the last item in Section 4 on the link you posted. He then said it looks like it's not notifiable if outside the Zones but we would still ask for it, when I asked how they could enforce it if it was not part of Building Regs he said they couldn't.
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19 April 2013 12:50 PM
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	Wasn`t zone 3 applicable in BS 7671 2008(2) ? ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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19 April 2013 02:02 PM
rougediablo Posts: 112 Joined: 09 November 2011	Zone 3 was omitted when we changed from 16th to 17th edition
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19 April 2013 02:06 PM
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	I was trying to remember when that was. The OP about zone shown round a hand basin - I think someone made an initial mistake and a lot of manufacturers then copied that mistake ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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19 April 2013 09:56 AM
AJJewsbury Posts: 17795 Joined: 13 August 2003	Nice to see that such cock-ups aren't the exclusive territory of JPEL/64 ! - Andy.
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19 April 2013 02:23 PM
AJJewsbury Posts: 17795 Joined: 13 August 2003	I was trying to remember when that was. Last 16th Ed was BS 7671:1992 AMD 2 (March 2004) - which will have been superseded by the 17th in Jan 2008 (or slightly later if you were already in the design stage). - Andy.
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19 April 2013 04:32 PM
dg66 Posts: 1712 Joined: 11 January 2008	Originally posted by: AJJewsbury I was trying to remember when that was. Last 16th Ed was BS 7671:1992 AMD 2 (March 2004) - which will have been superseded by the 17th in Jan 2008 (or slightly later if you were already in the design stage). - Andy. What about BS 7671 : 2001 Blue cover ------------------------- Regards Dave(not Cockburn)
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19 April 2013 04:35 PM
AJJewsbury Posts: 17795 Joined: 13 August 2003	Opps, yes, you're right, the last 16th was BS 7671:2001 AMD 2 (March 2004).
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20 April 2013 08:14 AM
dickllewellyn Posts: 1434 Joined: 19 March 2010	I never had that blue one, I think I had a paper insert with the changes to put in my yellow one from memory! ------------------------- Regards Richard (Dick) "Insert words of wisdom and/or witty pun here"
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20 April 2013 09:49 AM
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	It would be nice to have a complete list of all the changes and dates ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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20 April 2013 12:46 PM
sparkingchip Posts: 11682 Joined: 18 January 2003	Some of the DIY sheds are supplying lights with instruction sheets that show a curved zone above wash hand basins which they state is a zone 2. I know how you all adhere to such instructions as they are more relevant than BS7671 when carrying out installation work. Andy
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23 April 2013 09:58 AM
rougediablo Posts: 112 Joined: 09 November 2011	Went for a look at the weekend & found the following: Connection to new illminated mirror/shaver had been spliced in to old shaver socket (not removed) feed in adjacent cylinder cupboard using 3 strip connectors with no enclosure or even any insulation tape. No loft caps etc so the downlighters were totally covered in loft insulation so they are unable to cool adequately. No rcd on modified part of circuit (no rcd at CU). No MWEIC issued so I doubt it was tested either. The plumbers answer? "The lad is qualified to do it but if you want a cert we'll get a spark in"
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23 April 2013 10:03 AM
AJJewsbury Posts: 17795 Joined: 13 August 2003	It would be nice to have a complete list of all the changes and dates Page 9 of the BGB! - Andy.
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23 April 2013 10:09 AM
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	Originally posted by: AJJewsbury It would be nice to have a complete list of all the changes and dates Page 9 of the BGB! - Andy. Yes Andy, I really meant what the actual changes were or at least the main ones. Bonding req, RCD req for ...... etc etc ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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23 April 2013 02:19 PM
AJJewsbury Posts: 17795 Joined: 13 August 2003	I really meant what the actual changes were or at least the main ones. Bonding req, RCD req for ...... etc etc Ah, sorry, with you now! I'm sure we have enough experience here to put something together... (for the last half century at least). - Andy.
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