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07 September 2017 05:27 pm
dustydazzler Posts: 3068 Joined: 19 January 2016	Mate asked me round to help pull up some old laminate flooring and take off shirting boards in his flat , having new real wood flooring laid. To our surprise all the ring main cables for the sockets are loose laid (no capping or conduit) and run behind the skirting boards. I know this is a breach of the safety wiring zones. This flat is less than 10 years old. I know new build wiring is rough as a BADgers , but this is taking the biscuit. Thoughts ?
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07 September 2017 09:33 pm
mapj1 Posts: 12039 Joined: 22 July 2004	1st thought, its not really in a zone but its not likely to be used to hang pictures, so real risk is low. 2nd thought when he refits his skirting, he should glue it rather than nail it. 3rd thought is the new floor thick enough you could have a void between floor and wall, and lose the cable into that? 4th thought, I'm assuming T and E, but there are cables that would be permitted with earthed foil inside.. ------------------------- regards Mike
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07 September 2017 11:29 pm
OlympusMons Posts: 87 Joined: 05 February 2016	Originally posted by: mapj1 1st thought, its not really in a zone but its not likely to be used to hang pictures, so real risk is low. 2nd thought when he refits his skirting, he should glue it rather than nail it. 3rd thought is the new floor thick enough you could have a void between floor and wall, and lose the cable into that? 4th thought, I'm assuming T and E, but there are cables that would be permitted with earthed foil inside.. 1 I suppose it depends on whether you consider a skirting board to be part of a wall (painters wouldn't), and whether the cables have been installed in the wall. you could look at it as surface fix with a wood capping. 3 the gap around the new floor is left for expansion of the floor, cables might be crushed if put in there
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08 September 2017 07:16 am
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	Ruffbadgering indeed. Certainly not in a zone unless 50mm deep. Capping is irrelavant . ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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09 September 2017 08:40 am
tomgunn Posts: 4141 Joined: 25 May 2005	What about wiring fixed behind coving around the rooms ceiling? Tom ------------------------- Tom.... (The TERMINATOR). handyTRADESMAN Castle Builders
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09 September 2017 08:59 am
daveparry1 Posts: 8020 Joined: 04 July 2007	Nothing wrong with that Tom.
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10 September 2017 10:12 am
tomgunn Posts: 4141 Joined: 25 May 2005	Originally posted by: daveparry1 Nothing wrong with that Tom. Well... theres a fing! Tom ------------------------- Tom.... (The TERMINATOR). handyTRADESMAN Castle Builders
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09 September 2017 09:06 am
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	Originally posted by: tomgunn What about wiring fixed behind coving around the rooms ceiling? Tom permitted zone ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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07 September 2017 09:42 pm
weirdbeard Posts: 3116 Joined: 26 September 2011	Originally posted by: dustydazzler To our surprise all the ring main cables for the sockets are loose laid (no capping or conduit) and run behind the skirting boards. I know this is a breach of the safety wiring zones. Which of the wiring safety zones are breached? ------------------------- :beer)
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07 September 2017 09:48 pm
dustydazzler Posts: 3068 Joined: 19 January 2016	Originally posted by: weirdbeard Originally posted by: dustydazzler To our surprise all the ring main cables for the sockets are loose laid (no capping or conduit) and run behind the skirting boards. I know this is a breach of the safety wiring zones. Which of the wiring safety zones are breached? They aren't in the traditional safe zones that one would expect if you look at the picture of the old zone illustration diagram ?
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11 September 2017 05:47 pm
weirdbeard Posts: 3116 Joined: 26 September 2011	Originally posted by: dustydazzler Originally posted by: weirdbeard Originally posted by: dustydazzler To our surprise all the ring main cables for the sockets are loose laid (no capping or conduit) and run behind the skirting boards. I know this is a breach of the safety wiring zones. Which of the wiring safety zones are breached? They aren't in the traditional safe zones that one would expect if you look at the picture of the old zone illustration diagram ? The cables don't sound like they are concealed in a wall, they are concealed behind a skirting board. Here's a related topic: http://www.theiet.org/forums/f...205&threadid=%2056376 ------------------------- :beer)
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12 September 2017 11:23 pm
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	Cables behind skirtings (in the wall it`s fixed to ) are permitted providing they are vertical to sockets/switches etc. I suppose ditto horozontal but you would never put a socket/witch etc at skirting height. Would you? ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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13 September 2017 12:37 am
OlympusMons Posts: 87 Joined: 05 February 2016	Originally posted by: ebee Cables behind skirtings (in the wall it`s fixed to ) are permitted providing they are vertical to sockets/switches etc. I suppose ditto horozontal but you would never put a socket/witch etc at skirting height. Would you? Depends on the height of the skirting. Some are huge, especially in older properties. The diagram showing permitted zones does not have a skirting, so it makes sense not to bury cables there in case they are fitted later. If they are surface fixed and the carpenter fitting the skirting can see it, then there shouldn't be a problem. A skirting is not part of a wall. I am not saying I have done this, but, from the regs, I can see why others have done this and thought it to be compliant.
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07 September 2017 09:42 pm
dustydazzler Posts: 3068 Joined: 19 January 2016	The irony is the skirting were nailed in place with ring nails and a pain to get off. I'm amazed the only damage to the cabling was a couple glancing blows to the outer insulation. He will be gluing the skirting back in place once the new floor is down. Not a nail or nail gun is going anywhere near those cables. From an electricians point of view it just seems a rough way to run cables in when they could have just been capped under the plaster. That being said I have seen plenty of phone and data cables clipped behind skirting in the past
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09 September 2017 09:17 am
dustydazzler Posts: 3068 Joined: 19 January 2016	Laying a cable behind decorative coving is quite a safe place for it. I don't thing I have ever seen anyone hang a picture directly off their decorative ceiling coving and certainly never seen a diyer fix coving in place using 3 inch cut nails
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09 September 2017 10:55 am
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	I must admit of all the zones the top 150mm of wall is my least favourite (along with the corners formed by two walls) - when fixing up coving it oft gets pinned up awaiting adhesive drying. ping!!! pin pierces cable ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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10 September 2017 10:15 am
tomgunn Posts: 4141 Joined: 25 May 2005	Originally posted by: ebee I must admit of all the zones the top 150mm of wall is my least favourite (along with the corners formed by two walls) - when fixing up coving it oft gets pinned up awaiting adhesive drying. ping!!! pin pierces cable True... BUT, you shouldn't ever put a nail through the coving as you then need to make good to the coving and they are easy to damage.. what you should do is to lightly tack a few 3" wire nails / similar beneath the actual coving... But.. I didn't think it was acceptable for that area to run cables... need to learn more before I drop off of my perch!! Tom ------------------------- Tom.... (The TERMINATOR). handyTRADESMAN Castle Builders
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10 September 2017 11:02 am
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	Tomm, I didn`t actually mean a "pin" to pin it up with but more like 2" ovals etc Rather like "hoovering up" with a Dyson etc (Yes I use 2" ovals or 5 x45mm long screws when repalcing floorboards etc - tin hat ready!) ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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10 September 2017 04:20 pm
Jon74 Posts: 53 Joined: 19 January 2015	Originally posted by: ebee I must admit of all the zones the top 150mm of wall is my least favourite (along with the corners formed by two walls) - when fixing up coving it oft gets pinned up awaiting adhesive drying. ping!!! pin pierces cable In reality though - how many times have you been called out to fix a fault with a nail/screw through a cable in a vertical/horizontal safety zone vs in the 150mm from top/corners.... I don't think I've ever had a callout for the latter. Electricians know about safety zones... majority of home-owners don't seem to!
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10 September 2017 09:47 pm
ebee Posts: 6735 Joined: 02 December 2004	I put that down to the fact that most of us would avoid the corners like the plague so less chance there is actually a cable in that zone anyway. Wheras the verticals might be expected by some and the horizontals to a lesser (but appreciable ) extent ------------------------- Regards, Ebee (M I S P N) Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
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11 September 2017 05:01 pm
ArduinoXR Posts: 104 Joined: 16 August 2017	If the cable is within 50mm from the surface of the partition on the reverse side it requires mechanical protection. If it's an NYMJ I think it would be fine, a t+e cable with a bare integral earth is unacceptable.
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11 September 2017 05:27 pm
weirdbeard Posts: 3116 Joined: 26 September 2011	Originally posted by: dustydazzler Mate asked me round to help pull up some old laminate flooring and take off shirting I know new build wiring is rough as a BADgers , but this is taking the biscuit. Thoughts ? As you are such close friends, did you recommend any emergency remedial repairs be carried out as it was so rough? ------------------------- :beer)
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13 September 2017 08:56 pm
jonny705 Posts: 223 Joined: 26 September 2015	Evening , I had this problem last year in a flat with solid ceilings and floors, so ran it in BS 8436 cable behind the skirting. I could chop enough plaster from wall to make it flush to allow the skirting to go back flush. If the Plaster has been feathered down and is really thin at FFL you will have to chase into the brick which is a mare. The only other way round it as to space the skirting off the wall , but unless you like, or are good at Carpentry its quite a fiddly job. Capping is so thin now , if I drove nail into the wall ,it would go straight through anyway. Pine Skirting vs coke can thick Capping vs Brittle Plastic trucking in a mechanical protection role when hit with a large hammer would win every time
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14 September 2017 03:58 pm
weirdbeard Posts: 3116 Joined: 26 September 2011	204 posts to read on a related topic : http://www.theiet.org/forums/f...tid=205&threadid=37768 ------------------------- :beer)
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26 March 2019 06:29 pm
Weirdbeard2 Posts: 753 Joined: 29 November 2017	Bump
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27 March 2019 10:09 am
potential Posts: 1774 Joined: 01 February 2007	Originally posted by: Weirdbeard2 Bump Quite correct, that is what skirting boards do, they protect the wall from bumps. In the 60 odd years I've wired houses (off and on, usually older houses) I've never ever run cable behind a skirting board. Why? Because I've seen too many nails sticking out of the back of them where the person who put them in originally missed their fixing.
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